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	<title>Comments on: My philomath project: Sensitivity versus block-sensitivity</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?feed=rss2&#038;p=453" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453</link>
	<description>The Blog of Scott Aaronson</description>
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		<title>By: Andris</title>
		<link>http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16319</link>
		<dc:creator>Andris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 12:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tracy (#78):

we do not have such an example for even s at the moment.

Regarding the maximizing example, it&#039;s non-unique. Another function that achieves s=3, bs=6 is as follows:
- Denote the variables as x_0, x_1, x_2, y_0, y_1, y_2, z_0, z_1, z_2.
- If there is an i such that x_i\neq y_i and x_{(i+1) mod 3}=y_{i+1}, let f=(y_i+y_{(i+1) mod 3}+z_i) mod 2. (If such i exists, it is unique because we either have only one i:x_i=y_i or only one i:x_i\neq y_i.)
- Otherwise, let f=(x_0+x_1+x_2) mod 2.

We do not know if there are more functions or not. The drawback of using a SAT solver is that it outputs one solution to the SAT instance, not all solutions. Madars tried several different SAT solvers. One of them gave the modified Rubinstein function, the other gave the function above.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tracy (#78):</p>
<p>we do not have such an example for even s at the moment.</p>
<p>Regarding the maximizing example, it&#8217;s non-unique. Another function that achieves s=3, bs=6 is as follows:<br />
- Denote the variables as x_0, x_1, x_2, y_0, y_1, y_2, z_0, z_1, z_2.<br />
- If there is an i such that x_i\neq y_i and x_{(i+1) mod 3}=y_{i+1}, let f=(y_i+y_{(i+1) mod 3}+z_i) mod 2. (If such i exists, it is unique because we either have only one i:x_i=y_i or only one i:x_i\neq y_i.)<br />
- Otherwise, let f=(x_0+x_1+x_2) mod 2.</p>
<p>We do not know if there are more functions or not. The drawback of using a SAT solver is that it outputs one solution to the SAT instance, not all solutions. Madars tried several different SAT solvers. One of them gave the modified Rubinstein function, the other gave the function above.</p>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16318</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16318</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I hope you don&#039;t mind frivolous comments on this impressive blog.  I want to point out a nice link to a different Philomath concept: the Philomath Frolic and Rodeo -
http://www.philomathrodeo.org/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope you don&#8217;t mind frivolous comments on this impressive blog.  I want to point out a nice link to a different Philomath concept: the Philomath Frolic and Rodeo -<br />
<a href="http://www.philomathrodeo.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.philomathrodeo.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16317</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 21:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16317</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[anon #86: I truly, honestly have no clue what you&#039;re talking about.  I didn&#039;t recently review any paper having anything to do with s vs. bs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>anon #86: I truly, honestly have no clue what you&#8217;re talking about.  I didn&#8217;t recently review any paper having anything to do with s vs. bs.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16316</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 17:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16316</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Scott ... the overall post and the idea seems somewhat taken from a paper you recently reviewed for a journal ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott &#8230; the overall post and the idea seems somewhat taken from a paper you recently reviewed for a journal ?</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16315</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 02:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I reworded my previous ideas more cleanly and better typeset on the Math Overflow site:
http://mathoverflow.net/questions/31482/the-sensitivity-of-2-colorings-of-the-d-dimensional-integer-lattice/33971#33971]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I reworded my previous ideas more cleanly and better typeset on the Math Overflow site:<br />
<a href="http://mathoverflow.net/questions/31482/the-sensitivity-of-2-colorings-of-the-d-dimensional-integer-lattice/33971#33971" rel="nofollow">http://mathoverflow.net/questions/31482/the-sensitivity-of-2-colorings-of-the-d-dimensional-integer-lattice/33971#33971</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16314</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16314</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s some ideas that naturally invoke a sqrt(d) bound, it&#039;s late so I hope it&#039;s right:

Start at a blue point with k red points adjacent to it. There are at least d-(k+1)r coordinate axes (&quot;tangent coordinates&quot;) we can move along from the blue point that gets us to another blue point with at least k red points in the same &quot;normal directions&quot; as before. Note that this number is positive unless d is less than or equal to r(r+1), in which case the sqrt(d) bound holds, so for contradiction purposes we can assume it always positive. In fact, we can assume, say, d-(k+1)r is at least d/2, or any other constant multiple of d, by the same argument.

Moving along these directions, one of two things can happen: 1) The same tangent directions work always, and we get a plane of dimension d-(k+1)r with k constant normal directions. This is a slight generalization of a property Gowers assumes above. Or, 2) at some blue point the previous tangent direction now contains a red point. In this case, this blue point now has at least (k+1) normal directions, and applying the above result, we can continue from here along a new d-(k+2)r dimensional plane with (k+1) fixed normal directions. Repeating the above, case 2) can only happen a finite number of times, namely, until we reach a blue point with r (mutually perpendicular) normal directions, i.e. a point with maximum sensitivity.  In particular, any point of maximum sensitivity must belong to a d-(r+1)r dimensional plane, where every point in the plane has maximum sensitivity, the same color, and the same normal directions.

Now build on Gowers&#039; idea. Consider the possible maximum-sensitivity planes reachable from each of the d blue points on coordinate axes. Note that by construction, the plane(s) associated to the ith coordinate axis have constant ith coordinate (b/c there&#039;s a normal in that direction always).  Each max-sensitivity plane has at most 2r normal directions, and each contains the normal direction from the original coordinate axis, so there must be are at least d/2r such max-sensitivity planes.

I think we might be able to push through the other side of the inequality with at least a polynomial bound but I need to go to sleep now and I&#039;m thinking there&#039;s a good chance some or all of the above is wrong..

To be continued..]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s some ideas that naturally invoke a sqrt(d) bound, it&#8217;s late so I hope it&#8217;s right:</p>
<p>Start at a blue point with k red points adjacent to it. There are at least d-(k+1)r coordinate axes (&#8220;tangent coordinates&#8221;) we can move along from the blue point that gets us to another blue point with at least k red points in the same &#8220;normal directions&#8221; as before. Note that this number is positive unless d is less than or equal to r(r+1), in which case the sqrt(d) bound holds, so for contradiction purposes we can assume it always positive. In fact, we can assume, say, d-(k+1)r is at least d/2, or any other constant multiple of d, by the same argument.</p>
<p>Moving along these directions, one of two things can happen: 1) The same tangent directions work always, and we get a plane of dimension d-(k+1)r with k constant normal directions. This is a slight generalization of a property Gowers assumes above. Or, 2) at some blue point the previous tangent direction now contains a red point. In this case, this blue point now has at least (k+1) normal directions, and applying the above result, we can continue from here along a new d-(k+2)r dimensional plane with (k+1) fixed normal directions. Repeating the above, case 2) can only happen a finite number of times, namely, until we reach a blue point with r (mutually perpendicular) normal directions, i.e. a point with maximum sensitivity.  In particular, any point of maximum sensitivity must belong to a d-(r+1)r dimensional plane, where every point in the plane has maximum sensitivity, the same color, and the same normal directions.</p>
<p>Now build on Gowers&#8217; idea. Consider the possible maximum-sensitivity planes reachable from each of the d blue points on coordinate axes. Note that by construction, the plane(s) associated to the ith coordinate axis have constant ith coordinate (b/c there&#8217;s a normal in that direction always).  Each max-sensitivity plane has at most 2r normal directions, and each contains the normal direction from the original coordinate axis, so there must be are at least d/2r such max-sensitivity planes.</p>
<p>I think we might be able to push through the other side of the inequality with at least a polynomial bound but I need to go to sleep now and I&#8217;m thinking there&#8217;s a good chance some or all of the above is wrong..</p>
<p>To be continued..</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16313</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16313</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d like to emphasize the earlier observation (originally by Daniel) that the coloring can be taken to be periodic. In fact if we want we can even assume the same periodicity in all coordinate directions.

I mention this again because I agree with previous comments that this problem has a topological/Sperner&#039;s lemma &quot;feel&quot; to it, and a periodic coloring can be pushed to the d-dimensional torus, which has some significant topological differences from R^d. (Also, the periodicity comes naturally from how the coloring problem arose from the original boolean function problem.)

So I propose the torus-coloring sensitivity problem as a variant for consideration, whose results still strictly translate over to the original boolean function problem.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to emphasize the earlier observation (originally by Daniel) that the coloring can be taken to be periodic. In fact if we want we can even assume the same periodicity in all coordinate directions.</p>
<p>I mention this again because I agree with previous comments that this problem has a topological/Sperner&#8217;s lemma &#8220;feel&#8221; to it, and a periodic coloring can be pushed to the d-dimensional torus, which has some significant topological differences from R^d. (Also, the periodicity comes naturally from how the coloring problem arose from the original boolean function problem.)</p>
<p>So I propose the torus-coloring sensitivity problem as a variant for consideration, whose results still strictly translate over to the original boolean function problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16312</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just to let people know: Peter and I discussed it yesterday and unfortunately found a bug in his counterexample.  The s(C)=&#937;(&#8730;d) conjecture stands.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to let people know: Peter and I discussed it yesterday and unfortunately found a bug in his counterexample.  The s(C)=&Omega;(&radic;d) conjecture stands.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Shor</title>
		<link>http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16311</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Shor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16311</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think I have a counterexample in Z^d. I&#039;ve posted a description at Math Overflow (where there&#039;s better LaTeX support) and already Scott has simplified it.

http://mathoverflow.net/questions/31482/the-sensitivity-of-2-colorings-of-the-d-dimensional-integer-lattice/33399]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I have a counterexample in Z^d. I&#8217;ve posted a description at Math Overflow (where there&#8217;s better LaTeX support) and already Scott has simplified it.</p>
<p><a href="http://mathoverflow.net/questions/31482/the-sensitivity-of-2-colorings-of-the-d-dimensional-integer-lattice/33399" rel="nofollow">http://mathoverflow.net/questions/31482/the-sensitivity-of-2-colorings-of-the-d-dimensional-integer-lattice/33399</a></p>
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		<title>By: Gil</title>
		<link>http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16310</link>
		<dc:creator>Gil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=453#comment-16310</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I did not yet internalized Scott&#039;s Z^d formulation it looks that in both formulations it will be very useful to characterize sets with small sensitivity. Thinking more about Boolean functions described by  &quot;random&quot; small depth Boolean circuits while the average sensitivity is polylog (n) I am leaning to think that the average sensitivity will be much larger. (But I am not sure and have no clue how to prove such a thing.) Anyway, I realize that if yout function depends on all variables the sensitivity is at least log n but I would like to see various examples (ot just links to previous comments) of Boolean functions with sensitivity log n or polylog n .]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I did not yet internalized Scott&#8217;s Z^d formulation it looks that in both formulations it will be very useful to characterize sets with small sensitivity. Thinking more about Boolean functions described by  &#8220;random&#8221; small depth Boolean circuits while the average sensitivity is polylog (n) I am leaning to think that the average sensitivity will be much larger. (But I am not sure and have no clue how to prove such a thing.) Anyway, I realize that if yout function depends on all variables the sensitivity is at least log n but I would like to see various examples (ot just links to previous comments) of Boolean functions with sensitivity log n or polylog n .</p>
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